Luke Kemp, a research affiliate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk researched 324 cases of societies, usually empires (which he called Goliaths) that collapsed - and soon found one thing they all had in common...

In this (slightly terrifying) conversation we discuss the main questions featured in Luke's groundbreaking book, Goliath's Curse - questions like why are hierarchical societies always a bad idea, what usually goes wrong first and finally, why we seem to be heading for a collapse of our own.