Humanist mums (II of II) more on Humanism, conscientious objectors and human shields in Ukraine with Andrew Copson (Humanists UK)

In this episode, the second of two, I ask for Andrew's help in persuading my mum not to be a human shield in Ukraine (she wants to learn Ukrainian as a 70th birthday present to herself) and we talk more about people who resist war, humanism and pacificism.