Episode notes
Zen Roshi, Lola McDowell Lee, recounts the tale of Zen Master Hogen who studied with Keishin Zenji. Once Keishin Zenji asked him, 'Joza, where do you go?' “Hogen answered, 'I am making pilgrimage aimlessly." Lola also shares the story of the non-believer who falls off a cliff and dangles by a small twig. He begs God to help him. "But I thought you didn’t believe in me,” says God. The non-believer says, “Okay, I do now. Please save me." So God answers, “Okay, let go of the twig and I will save you.” Zen masters never tell the truth. They may point, or provoke, or create a situation that will help you learn. But if a teacher says what he is saying is the truth, leave him. If you can see the truth, you can see it here—where you are. Nirvana is samsara. July 15, 1985.