There are conversations that feel like they're about one thing, but they're actually about something else entirely. This one starts with laughter… and ends up in a tender place.

Ryan Shelton is such an excellent human. He's one third of The Imperfects alongside Hugh and Josh van Cuylenburg, and a face on Australian screens for the better part of two decades, from Rove to Hamish & Andy. I knew going into this chat that it'd be warm and funny and real.

We talk about what it costs to keep seeking approval, the psychology behind why so many of us are still waiting for someone to say "it's your turn now," and the surprising power of small, silly, seemingly pointless things. Ryan's beautiful quote - delivered with perfect comic timing and complete sincerity - might be my favourite callout from the whole season so far:  ...