The Nonviolent Jesus

by Fr. John Dear

Season 2

#81. John Dear with scholar, author and international leader in racial healing Dr. Catherine Meeks: "The culture in the US reinforces the notion that people of color are inferior to white people."

On today’s new episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with my friend Dr. Catherine Meeks, a nationally recognized leader in racial healing and founder of the Turquoise & Lavender Institute for Transformation and Healing. Her latest book is .Bridging the Rivers of Difference: A Proclamation of Unity in Resistance Her other books include The Night Is Long but Light Comes in the Morning: Meditations on Racial Healing, and The Quilted Life: Reflections of a Sharecropper’s Daughter. She spent 25 years as chair of the African American Studies program at Mercer University. “I grew up poor and black in Arkansas, and my way in the world is to connect to the spiritual and God and the way people should be treated right,” she says. This country was founded on the notion that some humans were worth more than others, included black people and women. The Constitution wasn't talking about us. The Heritage Foundation has been working militantly with Project 2025, but we have to be willing to stop having a hierarchy of human value. “Racism has injured us all,” she continues. “Everyone has been wounded by it. The culture in the US reinforces the notion that people of color are inferior to white people, but we're all made in God's image and we all deserve to be treated right. We have to create new narratives and trust each other enough to work for the general welfare that benefits everybody, not just one set of people." “We need to recognize the nonviolent Jesus. To dehumanize another person is violent while Jesus was always respecting people. There is no Jesus for warmongers. War is never going to end other wars. We need to reimagine what nonviolence really is about. I see this moment as a time to grips with what kind of human we want to be.” Listen in to hear the powerful words of Dr. Catherine Meeks! www.turquoiseandlavender.com beatitudescenter.org https://fatherjohndear.substack.com/

S2 · E81

Jul 20, 2026

40:17

#80. John Dear in conversation with author and theologian Fr. Ron Rolheiser: " In my lifetime I've never lived through darker days."

“My mantra now is, ‘Let it go, let it go, let it go,’” theologian Ron Rolheiser tells John Dear On today’s episode I speak with my friend writer and theologian, Fr. Ron Rolheiser, one of the most popular Catholic writers in the world, about his new book, Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years, the conclusion of his trilogy of modern spiritual classics, following The Holy Longing and Sacred Fire. Fr. Ron Rolheiser is the author of many other best-sellers including The Restless Heart, The Shattered Lantern, Forgotten Among the Lilies; Prayer; and The Passion and the Cross. Orbis published an anthology, Ron Rolheiser: Essential Spiritual Writings. He recently retired from his position as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas, but continues to write, teach and speak around the country. You can learn more about him at his website: www.ronrolheiser.com Speaking about a spirituality for our wisdom years, Ron invites us to address anger, and other forms of resentment and bitterness, and let it go into softness, forgiveness, and gratitude. “I've spent most of the years of my life in leadership and now nobody's asking for my opinion,” he says. “Letting go of control is difficult. As my health deteriorates, I have to learn to let go. My mantra now is, ‘let it go, let it go, let it go.’ But as I move from full time activity into passivity, I’m asking myself, ‘Who am I when I stop doing? When you're God's beloved, how do we actually own that?’” “In my lifetime I've never lived through darker days,” he adds. “We're trying to solve violence with violence, but violence begets violence. Politicians are openly saying that compassion is weakness. We've never needed the message of nonviolence more than now. "The Sermon on the Mount is the greatest moral code ever written. We have to be the ones who stand up and live in hope! To do that, we have to keep a subversive sense of humor.” Listen in to this great wisdom teacher and be inspired! beatitudescenter.org ronrolheiser.com 🌻, John

S2 · E80

Jul 13, 2026

35:01

#79. John Dear in conversation with scripture scholar and author Wes Howard-Brook: "We're faced with the choice between the religion of empire or the religion of creation."

On today’s new episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with my friend scripture scholar Wes Howard-Brook, author of several great books, including his commentary on the Gospel of John, Becoming Children of God. He also has a free YouTube channel “The Radical Bible,” his study of the Bible as a whole called, Come Out My People!: God’s Call out of Empire in the Bible and Beyond. He also just published a smaller, more accessible version of it called: Creation or Empire: A Choice of Religions in the Bible and Beyond. He tells us: "The Bible is not a bunch of rules or a bunch of pull quotes." “Most Christians treat the Bible like someone who's been on a one-week tourist trip with a bad tour guide, which is to say, they've gotten a superficial overview and had it interpreted wrongly, and then concluded, ‘Why would I want to go there again?’ he says. “The heart of my work is trying to re-establish a passion for biblical literacy, because as all indigenous cultures know, as a people, you are the stories that carry you forward. “The Bible is a set of narratives, poems, proverbs, and other texts that were written by our Israelite and Judean ancestors to get their children to grapple with one central question: what kind of people does God intend us to be? “The Bible proposes two choices: the religion of creation and the religion of empire. Jesus enters into that 2,000 year old argument among his people: are we to be a powerful empire in the name of God, centered in Jerusalem, to which all the nations will stream and bow down to us and our God? Or is creation the temple; do we find the Creator in the creation, and every created being is part of that? Jesus plainly and explicitly sides with the religion of creation and resists empire.” We were so inspired by this Bible scholar to find the Creator in creation and resist empire! Find his book here Sign up for more podcasts and interactive zooms here beatitudescenter.org IG @thenonviolentjesus Connect with me on Substack @FatherJohnDear 🌻, John

S2 · E79

Jul 6, 2026

32:50

#78. John Dear with theologian/author/activist Lisa Sharon Harper: "We were three floors below ground, it was hot and the walls and floor were covered with roaches."

Today I speak with my friend Lisa Sharon Harper. Lisa is a theologian, speaker, author, activist and trainer who has worked in Ferguson and Charlottesville, as well as South Africa, Brazil, Australia, Ireland and across the U.S. Her 2022 book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family And The World--And How To Repair It All, was named “Book of the Year” by Word and Way. Her 2016 book, The Very Good Gospel, was named “Book of the Year” by the Englewood Review of Books. After her leadership at Sojourners magazine, she founded Freedom Road, where she is the host of its podcast and column on Substack. The Huffington Post named her one of 50 Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day. (See: ) When I asked her about these days of social injustice, white supremacy and permanent warmaking under Trump, she spoke of crying every die. “I actually have hope but I'm grieving like the rest of the country,” she said. “I cry because of the Church's silence during the Obama era and back to the 70s/80s during the rise of the religious right. People didn't know what was right, just and Jesus's way…Evil is embedded in the Constitution and in the 3/4 compromise. I grieve for our inaction in the past. It didn't have to be this way, but in every generation, there is a remnant. There has always been a witness of the actual Jesus way of being in the world." "Right now, that witness is alive and well.” She told three stories: Her time in Ferguson in August, 2014 after Michael Brown was killed by a white policeman; Her time in Charlottesville, VA, when she was present in the protest against Trump’s neo-Nazis who killed Heather Heyer; Our experience when we were arrested and in the D.C. Central Cell block jail after protesting at the Supreme Court on the 40th anniversary of the U.S. death penalty. She shares about her organization, Freedom Road, which trains people of faith to take public action for justice, as well as her recent best-selling books and why she wrote them. “Nonviolence is the only way for people who are not on the upside of empire to fight back,” she concludes. "Nonviolence is the only way to not be at war with God.” Listen in and be inspired by this peacemaker to carry on! Lisa Sharon Harper Follow Lisa on Substack www.freedomroad.us beatitudescenter.org Follow me on Substack 🌻, John

S2 · E78

Jun 29, 2026

41:22

#77 John Dear in conversation with Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine: "The West Bank is a prison, Gaza is a concentration camp."

Today I speak with one of the great peacemakers of our time, my friend Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine. Zoughbi is a lifelong Catholic Palestinian activist, organizer and teacher of Gospel nonviolence. Long ago he founded the Wi’am Center, the Palestinian Conflict Transformation Center in the center of Bethlehem. Wi'am is widely recognized as a place of nonviolent conflict resolution that helps Palestinians in the day to day struggle for justice and peace (www.alaslah.org) For the last few years, he has also served as the president of the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, which is the oldest peace group in the world (www.ifor.org). Whenever you think you are working too hard for justice and peace, remember Zoughbi! “This is the first time in history that Bethlehem and Jerusalem are separated, that you cannot travel between them,” he says. “We are living in reservations, separated from each other. Bethlehem is becoming a smaller reservation surrounded by 23 settlements and many outposts. The West Bank is a prison; Gaza is a concentration camp. Every day, we see more prisoners, houses being demolished, state violence, settler violence, environmental violence. The situation is moving from worse to the worst.” “I want my people to live their life and know their rights, to work for a culture of acceptance, to resolve conflict nonviolently. We are exposing the atrocities of the Occupation, and ask people to be in solidarity for us. We are all global citizens of a global world. I want all Christian brothers and sisters to walk in our shoes. Come and visit! Stop aiding and supporting Israel, its weapons, wars and occupation. "I don't want the Holy Land to become a museum without people.” When asked about the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, he says, “Our dream is to educate all children in the world in peace and nonviolence, to get all religious leaders to preach the refusal of war, terrorism and violence, to get everyone to work for a world without war and nuclear weapons.” Zoughbi reminds us of how Jesus was during Roman occupation: “Jesus was soft on people, but hard on the system,” he concludes. “He asks us to love each other and to struggle against injustice…. Be the salt, the yeast and the light… Hope for me is a form of nonviolent struggle. We are going to become the Beloved Community one day!” Listen to the voice of a Palestinian peacemaker in Bethlehem speaking words of encouragement for all of us and be transformed! beatitudescenter.org https://substack.com/@fatherjohndear 🌻, John

S2 · E77

Jun 22, 2026

39:05

#76 John Dear with Mel Duncan, co-founder of Nonviolent Peaceforce about his work all over the world, more recently in Palestine and St. Paul, MN: "Organized nonviolence led to ICE leaving Minneapolis."

Dear friends, This week I speak with one of the great peacemakers of our times, my friend Mel Duncan about unarmed civilian protectors and the Nonviolent Peaceforce that has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016. Mel has been a leader in developing the practice of unarmed civilian protection for over two decades: He started providing nonviolent protective presence along Nicaragua’s northern border in 1984 during the Contra war. In 2002 along with David Hartsough and Mary Lou Ott he co-founded Nonviolent Peaceforce nonviolentpeaceforce.org Nonviolent Peaceforce’s “nonviolent civilian protectors” provide direct protection to civilians caught in violent conflict and work with local groups to prevent further violence and sustain peace in a variety of conflict areas including South Sudan, Ukraine, the Philippines and the United States. Mel has represented Nonviolent Peaceforce at the United Nations where the group has been granted Consultative Status. Recent UN global reviews as well as Security Council and General Assembly Resolutions have cited and recommended unarmed civilian protection. The American Friends Service Committee nominated Nonviolent Peaceforce for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize. In 2018 Nonviolent Peaceforce received the Luxembourg Peace Prize. Since retiring in 2023, Mel has helped organize a team of unarmed civilian protectors who are now working in Palestine as “Unarmed Civilian Protection.” He worked there for six months in 2025. For the past few months during the ICE occupation, he has been providing protective presence in St. Paul where he lives. When I asked about Palestine, he said, “The violence has intensified greatly since the attacks on Iran and Lebanon. It's provided a cover for Israelis to brutally attack Palestinian civilians. What can people do? As Rabbi Abraham Heschel said, we pray with our feet. Know that the Kingdom of God is here and now; it's a consciousness in all of us. Even when it's hopeless, we can continue on.” Mel tells us how thousands of people over the last 25 years have learned Nonviolent Peaceforce skills to take back to their own communities. There are now over 60 other civil society groups now doing this kind of work in 24 areas of the world. Mel says: "We stress the two hand approach: we resist the injustice with one hand while we reach out to the humanity in every one of us with the other.” Listen in and be inspired to step up your Gospel nonviolence! ucpip.org beatitudescenter.org 🌻, John

S2 · E76

Jun 15, 2026

40:06

#75 John Dear in conversation with bestseller writer Joyce Rupp on her award winning book "The Years of Ripening": "The Serenity Prayer is the prayer of elderhood, not just for AA!"

This week I speak with the beloved spiritual writer Joyce Rupp. An international retreat leader and conference speaker, Joyce is the author of three dozen bestselling books on compassion, grief, aging in midlife and in the later years, prayers and poems for every occasion, reflections on nature, and a memoir. Among her bestsellers are Boundless Compassion; Return to the Root; Jesus Guide of My Life; Constant Hope; Dear Heart Come Home; Praying Our Goodbyes; Inviting God In; and Walk in a Relaxed Manner. Orbis Books also published Joyce Rupp: Essential Writings. She is a member of the Servite community (Servants of Mary), was a volunteer for Hospice for fifteen years, and lives in West Des Moines, Iowa. “Elderhood is really all about surrender,” she tells me as we discuss her new book, The Years of Ripening. “But I like the word ‘acceptance’ better." She shares with us her thoughts on the aging process, self-compassion, surrender and vulnerability. Be encouraged, inspired and lifted up, you can also order her 2026 Nautilus Award winning book The Years of Ripening: Reflections on Aging in the Later Years" here "Acceptance and being with the process of surrender and letting go lead us to being at home in the heart of God. We can't give in to discouragement,” she concludes. “It doesn't get us anywhere!” You can find me on Substack @FatherJohnDear beatitudescenter.org joycerupp.com IG: @joyceruppauthor 🌻, John

S2 · E75

Jun 8, 2026

42:24

#74 Part 2 of 2: John Dear with authors John Dominic Crossan and Michael Okinczyc-Cruz on their new book "Jesus and Justice" and organizing work on the streets of Chicago: "We have a savage culture".

Today is Part 2 of my conversation with scripture scholar John Dominic Crossan along with Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, about their new book, Jesus and Justice: Organizing for God’s Reign on Earth Then and Now. Co-author Michael Okinczyc-Cruz is the Executive Director and co-founder of the Coalition for Spiritual and Public Leadership in Chicago where he is a community organizer. He is also a professor at the Institute of Pastoral Studies at Loyola University of Chicago. “One cannot look at our current political moment and not think about Jesus,” Dom Crossan says. “ Jesus’ teaching had to do with the lived realities of the oppressed people of his time. Jesus did faith-based community organizing and his nonviolent movement has ongoing relevance for today,” he says. Their new book, Jesus and Justice, reflects on Jesus as a grassroots movement organizer of nonviolent resistance, and combines Dom’s scholarship with Michael’s organizing work on the streets of Chicago. “In Chicago,” he says,“you could encounter Border Patrol and ICE agents roaming the streets, arresting people based on the color of their skin. Conditions were so horrific in detention, one local judge described it as a concentration camp. We organized thousands of people to protest these conditions, and our grassroots movement has made some progress. The distinctive nature of our work is nonviolence in all our actions and our words. This is how we follow Jesus.” “This path of nonviolence is the only path to an approximation of God's reign,” Dom concludes. “What's happening in our country is a revelation of who we are. We have a savage culture. We need people of good faith to be engaged, organize nonviolently and take risks and action to pursue and live out God's reign in our hearts and here on earth.” beatitudescenter.org Welcome to my Substack https://fatherjohndear.substack.com

S2 · E74

Jun 1, 2026

42:48

#73 Part 1 of 2: John Dear with scripture scholar John Dominic Crossan:"Has God given us the freedom to destroy ourselves and the world?"

On today’s new episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with my friend author and theologian John Dominic Crossan, perhaps the most widely read scripture scholar in the world. This is the first of two episodes with Dom. John Dominic Crossan is an Irish-born biblical scholar with post-doctoral diplomas in exegesis from Rome’s Pontifical Biblical Institute and in archeology from Jerusalem’s École Biblique. He has been a Catholic priest, a Co-Chair of the Jesus Seminar, and a President of the Society of Biblical Literature, and is professor emeritus of religious studies at DePaul university in Chicago. His many books include: *God and Empire: Jesus Against Rome; *How to read the Bible and Still Be a Christian; *Resurrecting Easter; *Excavating Jesus; The Birth of Christianity; *Who Killed Jesus? * The Historical Jesus *The Essential Jesus Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography A Memoir: A Long Way from Tipperary. In our conversation, he tells his fascinating journey to “the historical Jesus,” and how this became a global movement. “I can't not think of Jesus while living in this country and what's happening today,” he says. “What is hopeful now for the first time is that we are asking the right question: the historical Jesus is not just for Christians. The story isn’t just Jesus against Rome; it’s about God's creation against our civilization which is based entirely on violence.” At 92, after a lifetime of writing about the historical Jesus, he wonders about the fate of humanity. “Are we a sustainable species?” he asks. “That's the question. Or has God given us the freedom to destroy ourselves and our world?” Part Two will discuss his next book with Michael Okinczyc-Cruz, Jesus and Justice: Organizing for God’s Reign on Earth Then and Now. For more interactive Zoom teachings and podcast episodes: beatitudescentrum.org Follow along @FatherJohnDear on Substack 🌻, John

S2 · E73

May 25, 2026

41:43

#72 John Dear with Bishop Michael Curry, prophetic leader and best-selling author on the way of God and the way of life: "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!"

On today’s new episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with legendary Bishop Michael Curry who served as the 27th presiding bishop and primate of the Episcopal Church. Elected in 2015, he retired in 2024. Throughout his forty years of ordained ministry, Bishop Curry has been a prophetic leader, particularly in the areas of racial reconciliation, climate change, evangelism, immigration policy, and marriage equality. Bishop Curry is the author of five books, including the best-seller, Love Is the Way, as well as, The Power of Love; Crazy Christians and Following the Way of Jesus. He captured the world’s attention when he preached at Harry and Megan’s wedding at Westminster Abbey and called the whole world to love. “A Christianity that doesn't take the way of Jesus, his way of radical unconditional love, his way of nonviolent living,” he says, “always goes wrong. Sacrificial love is the way of God and the way of life! As Duke Ellington said, ‘It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!’” Bishop Curry talks about Jesus as an organizer, and what he asks us to do when we join the movement of God, and what that movement means. His enthusiasm is infectious and his words run deep. When I asked for his parting words of encouragement, he said this is “a long distance walk, so we need each other, we need community.” Then he sang the old spiritual: “Walk together children, and don't you get weary; there's a great camp meeting in the Promised Land!” If you need encouragement, inspiration, and want to "hold on to hope in troubled times", you want to listen to this episode with Bishop Michael Curry today (and it's worth a repeat). For more information on the work we do, and to sign up for our newsletter and interactive Zoom conversations go to beatitudescenter.org Come join me on Substack @fatherjohndear.substack.com Onward in peace with the nonviolent Jesus! 🌻, John

S2 · E72

May 18, 2026

34:38

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