Relational Practice: a social work podcast

Relational Practice: a social work podcast

by Jodie Park and Rose Mackey
How ToSocial Sciences
Season 2
The empathy map: navigating cognitive, emotional and compassionate empathy
"We were taught to be empathic. Nobody taught us what to do when it starts to hurt." Think of a client whose story has stayed with you, one you’ve carried home, or that found its way into your sleep. That isn't a sign that something went wrong. That is empathy doing exactly what it was designed to do. But how do we sustain that empathy over an entire career without burning out? In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey unpack the neuroscience, the nuance, and the real-world practice of empathy. Moving beyond the idea that empathy is just a personality trait, they explore it as a multidimensional, neurobiological process that can be understood, developed, and regulated. What We Cover in This Episode: The Three Types of Empathy: Breaking down Cognitive, Affective, and Compassionate empathy—and why understanding the difference dictates the "cost" of your connection. The Neuroscience of Connection: How mirror neurons literally activate a client's physiological experience in your own brain, and how Tania Singer’s research differentiates the pain centers of empathy from the reward circuits of compassion. The Empathy Dial & The Nervous System: A practical clinical tool to keep you in the "optimal zone" (present and curious, but not swept away) using a Polyvagal lens. Protecting Your Empathy: Daily, actionable strategies for social workers—including micro-debrief rituals, maximizing supervision, and tapping into vicarious resilience. Empathy doesn't wear out, but an unregulated empathic response does. Tune in to learn how to adjust your dial, not to feel less, but to feel sustainably. Connect with Us: Go to our new webpage at relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au to access past episodes and our ambiguous loss printables. Have a practice story or question? Drop us a line at relationalpractice01@gmail.com or find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube! Editing by Angus Pinkstone. Music by Hannah Park.
S2 · E37
Jul 19, 2026
58:03
Aggression: Instrumental vs. Reactive, why the Distinction Matters
Trigger Warning: This episode contains detailed discussions regarding aggression, violence, and antisocial behaviour. We recognize this content may be distressing, so please prioritize your well-being while listening. Aggression is a topic that sits at the very heart of social work practice, yet it is rarely "one-size-fits-all". In this episode, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey dive into the nuances of aggressive behaviour, moving beyond the surface-level outburst to understand the underlying drivers. Whether you are navigating a heated argument with a client or assessing purposeful, goal-directed harm, the distinction between Reactive and Instrumental aggression changes everything about how we assess, respond to, and ultimately help the people we work with. Key Discussion Points The Two Faces of Aggression: We break down the fundamental differences between Reactive Aggression (the "hot," impulsive survival response driven by fear or threat) and Instrumental Aggression (the "cold," calculated, and goal-directed behaviour). The Survival Brain vs. The Thinking Brain: Understanding how reactive aggression often stems from physiological arousal and trauma, where the emotional brain takes over before the thinking brain can intervene. The Challenge of Instrumental Aggression: Why "cold" aggression is often harder to identify clinically and its strong links to callous-unemotional traits and reduced empathy. Evidence-Based Interventions: We explore which treatments work for which profile—ranging from CBT, Anger Management, and DBT for reactive patterns, to Schema Therapy and specialized cognitive training for instrumental behaviours. The Social Work Strength: Why a whole-person, systemic, and trauma-informed lens is the most powerful tool for de-escalation and long-term change. Practitioner Safety: A vital reminder that clinician self-care is a non-negotiable part of working with high-risk behaviours. We’d love to hear from you! Do you have a story, question, or topic you'd like us to talk about? Or maybe you'd like to join us as a guest on an episode? Drop us a line at relationalpractice01@gmail.com Editing by Angus Pinkstone. Music by Hannah Park.
S2 · E36
Jul 5, 2026
1:09:52
Dissociation: What Is It and Why Does It Matter in Practice?
💡 How confident do you feel responding when a client dissociates mid-session? Dissociation is everywhere in our caseloads, yet so many practitioners feel unsure about what it actually is, how to assess for it, and how to safely respond in the room. In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr Jodie Park and Rose Mackey strip away the jargon fog to talk about the gaps between what we see and what we know. We map out the 4 levels of dissociation, dive into the neurobiology of "dissociative collapse" and look at why it's a brilliant survival response. What you’ll learn: 🧠 How to use Dan Siegel’s Window of Tolerance to guide your session pacing. ❄️ 5 evidence-backed grounding strategies to use in a session. 🚸 How to differentiate trauma-related dissociation in children from normal developmental play or sensory shutdowns. 🤝 Why shifting from trauma-informed to trauma-and-violence-informed practice is the key to removing systemic shame for clients. As always, your own nervous system matters! Tune in to learn how to cultivate conditions of safety so your clients can find their way back. 🎧 Listen now on your favourite podcast platform, and don't forget to download our ambiguous loss printables over at our website! 👉 relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au We would love to hear from you! Send practice stories, comments and feedback to relationalpractice01@gmail.com Editing by Angus Pinkstone. Music by Hannah Park.
S2 · E35
Jun 21, 2026
1:13:14
Self -harm: Moving Beyond Fear and Stigma
Trigger Warning: This episode contains detailed discussions about self-harm (non-suicidal self-injury). We recognize this content may be distressing. Please prioritize your well-being while listening. Discovering that a young person may be hurting themselves often triggers a level of fear and uncertainty in practitioners and caregivers that few other topics can match. Despite how common it is, self-harm remains a deeply misunderstood aspect of adolescent mental health. Far too often, the subject is buried under layers of social stigma and silence, or met with responses that, while well-intentioned, fail to provide the actual support a young person needs. In this episode, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey "cut through" the misconceptions to provide a clear, evidence-based understanding of self-harm. Whether you are a parent, carer, teacher, welfare or social worker, this conversation is designed to equip you with the tools to recognize, respond to, and support a young person in pain. We dive deep into: Defining the Intent: Why self-harm is increasingly recognized as a health issue independent of suicidal ideation. The "Why" Behind the Pain: Understanding self-harm as a way to cope with, express, or control emotional pain, or even as a form of self-punishment. Hidden Signs & Modern Variants: From the "visible" signs like clothing choices to less recognized forms like self-battery and digital self-harm (self-cyberbullying). The Power of First Response: Why reacting with calm, compassion, and curiosity, rather than shock or anger, is the most critical step in keeping the door of communication open. Self-harm is a young person’s way of communicating they are in more pain than they know how to carry. Join us as we discuss how to help them find something better to put in its place. Where to Find Support Australia-Based Services (24/7) Kids Helpline: 1800 55 1800 (For ages 5–25) Lifeline: 13 11 14 Beyond Blue: 1300 22 4636 13YARN: 13 92 76 (Support for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people) Immediate Danger: Call 000 or visit your local emergency department. For Our International Listeners If you are listening from outside of Australia, please know that support is available to you. We encourage you to reach out to your local emergency services or search for national mental health helplines in your country. Many regions offer 24/7 crisis support via phone or text. Seeking help from a mental health professional is the most effective way to address self-harm and find long-term relief. Editing by Angus Pinkstone. Music by Hannah Park.
S2 · E34
Jun 8, 2026
1:06:41
Co-Regulating the Frontline: Why We Need a "Rose" for Every "Jodie"
In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey go beyond the catch-all term of "stress" to explore the specific psychological injuries that social workers sustain on the front lines. We often feel that our exhaustion is a personal failure, but today we reframe it as a predictable biological and ethical response to a high-pressure system. Drawing heavily on the work of Vikki Reynolds, we dismantle the "Just Stressed" myth and look at why burnout is often actually "Ethical Conflict", the pain of being forced to work against our own professional ethics. In this episode, we discuss: The Injury Spectrum: Distinguishing between Vicarious Trauma (a shift in your worldview), Burnout (systemic exhaustion), Compassion Fatigue (nervous system drain), and Spiritual Pain (moral injury). The "Zone of Fabulousness": How to stay connected to your clients without becoming enmeshed in their trauma or disconnected like a "bureaucratic robot". Boundaries as Physical Safety: Why saying "no" and choosing your meeting environment are high-level clinical tools that protect your nervous system. Radical Self-Compassion: Moving away from "performative" self-care (like bubble baths) toward "Ethical Resistance" and collective accountability. Justice-Doing: Finding small, subversive ways to honour client dignity within rigid systems to jumpstart your own resilience. Whether you are feeling the "Sunday Scaries" or struggling with a sense of "Moral Injury," this episode is a call to reach out to your colleagues and start practicing collective care. Show Notes & Resources Visit our website: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au Connect with us: Join our community on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Get in touch: Email your stories to Relationalpractice01@gmail.com. Featured Concepts:Vikki Reynolds: "The Zone of Fabulousness" and "Justice-Doing". Kristin Neff: The framework of Self-Compassion (Common Humanity vs. Isolation). Polyvagal Theory: Understanding "Dorsal Vagal" shutdown and nervous system regulation. Editing by Angus Pinkstone Music by Hannah Park Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review to help us grow our community of relational practitioners!
S2 · E33
May 24, 2026
1:06:34
Relationship First: The Key to Safe DV Disclosure
In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey are joined by Professor Joanne Spangaro, a distinguished researcher and academic leader whose career is defined by a deep commitment to addressing gender-based violence (GBV). With a professional journey that began in 1984 as a sexual assault counsellor, Jo brings over four decades of frontline experience to her high-impact systemic research. We dive into Jo’s influential work as a researcher, specifically her critical examination of the implementation and impact of routine screening for intimate partner violence (IPV). We discuss the nuances of how survivors decide to disclose abuse and why the health system's response must be rooted in relationship-building and cultural safety. In this episode, we discuss: Screening Research & Implementation: The background and evidence-base for domestic violence screening tools. "Deciding to Tell": Jo’s research into how women decide to disclose experiences of abuse when asked by healthcare professionals. Indigenous Health & Cultural Safety: Factors influencing Australian Aboriginal women’s decisions to disclose violence and the necessity of clinical safety. Implementation Tips: Practical considerations and tips for practitioners implementing screening in their own fields. Navigating Complexity: Understanding the risk factors and implementation challenges associated with IPV. Whether you are a practitioner in health, child protection, or private practice, Jo’s insights offer a powerful look at how research can translate into safer environments and improved service delivery for survivors. Show Notes & Resources Visit our website: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au Connect with us: Join our community on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. Get in touch: We love hearing your practice stories! Email us at Relationalpractice01@gmail.com. Featured Guest: Professor Joanne Spangaro, a prolific author of over 60 peer-reviewed works and an expert in domestic violence practice. Please remember to subscribe, rate, and review to help us continue bringing these vital conversations to the social work community! Editing by Angus Pinkstone Music by Hannah Park Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review to help us grow our community of relational practitioners!
S2 · E32
May 11, 2026
1:13:12
Permission to be Human: Moving from Blame to Systems Thinking
In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey tackle the heavy weight of professional fallibility. We often feel that because we work with human lives, we aren’t allowed the luxury of being human ourselves, leading to those 3:00 AM "mistake loops" in our minds. Using the seminal work of Professor Eileen Munro, we dismantle the idea that errors are simply acts of incompetence. Instead, we explore how the high-pressure environments of child protection and social work naturally trigger cognitive biases and mental shortcuts. In this episode, we discuss: The Core Conflict: Balancing fast, intuitive reasoning with slow, logical analytic thinking. Reasoning Traps: How "Confirmation Bias," "Availability Bias," and "The Primacy Effect" can skew our assessments of families. The Systems Approach: Why we need to stop asking "Who messed up?" and start asking "Why did this mistake make sense at the time?". Building Skilled Intuition: Using supervision as a "lab" to socialize our thinking and "de-bias" our practice. Whether you work in child protection, hospitals, schools, mental health, aged care, or any frontline role where human complexity meets high-pressure decision-making, this episode is a reminder that professional integrity isn’t about being perfect. It is about being transparent in your reasoning and brave enough to treat mistakes as an inevitable part of a system built on uncertainty. Show Notes & Resources Visit our new website: relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au Connect with us: Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and our new YouTube page. Get in touch: Email your practice stories to Relationalpractice01@gmail.com. Featured Citations:Munro, E. (1999). Common errors of reasoning in child protection work. Munro, E. (2011). The Munro review of child protection: Final report—A child-centred system. Editing by Angus Pinkstone Music by Hannah Park Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review to help us grow our community of relational practitioners!
S2 · E31
Apr 27, 2026
1:17:18
The Mirror and the Rearview: Navigating Reflection and Reflexivity in Social Work
In social work, we are often taught to "reflect" on our practice, but there is a deeper, more transformational layer called reflexivity. In this episode, Jodie and Rose break down these two distinct but interconnected methods for professional growth. Using the analogy of the Rearview Mirror (looking back at an experience) and the Mirror (looking at ourselves in the present moment), we discuss how to elevate our practice across any setting. Grounded in Kolb’s Experiential Learning Theory, we explore how to move from simply observing a situation to truly transforming our professional identity and the way we hold space for others. In this episode, we discuss: The Core Distinction: Why reflection-on-action and reflection-in-action require different internal muscles. Kolb’s Cycle: How to use "Reflective Observation" and "Abstract Conceptualization" to turn everyday practice into lasting wisdom. Power & Integrity: How being reflexive helps us stay ethical and aware of the "taken-for-granted" assumptions we bring into the room. Practical Tools: Simple ways to integrate critical reflection into your supervision and daily routine. Join the Community: New Website: Visit relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au to find episodes and our Ambiguous Loss printables. Connect & Watch: Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and our new YouTube page for regular videos and practice updates. Your Stories: Email us at Relationalpractice01@gmail.com or use the contact section on our website. Music by Hannah Park Editing by Angus Pinkstone
S2 · E30
Apr 13, 2026
1:01:31
The Silent Dialogue: Why What Isn't Said Matters Most
In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, hosts Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey dive deep into the most essential tool in a practitioner’s toolkit: the art of truly hearing what isn't being said. They are joined by Ross Judd, an expert in communication and organizational culture, and the author of Listening: A Guide to Building Deeper Connections. For social workers on the front lines, whether in child protection, disability, or crisis intervention, clients often "test the waters" with surface-level complaints before sharing their true stories. Ross introduces his R.E.O.S.T.A.R. process, a powerful framework designed to help practitioners break through these barriers, avoid the common "fix-it" trap, and build radical empathy. Key highlights of this conversation include: The R.E.O.S.T.A.R. Process: A step-by-step guide to recognizing surface comments, empathizing with underlying emotions, and asking powerful questions to uncover core values. The Integrated Values Iceberg: How to remain self-aware of your own biases and values so they don't "block" what a client is trying to communicate, especially in high-stress environments. The Heavy Gift of Listening: A candid discussion on how to stay open and listen deeply to heavy stories without losing yourself in the process. Whether you are navigating high-conflict family dynamics or trying to connect with a defensive client, this episode offers practical strategies to move beyond the paperwork and build life-changing connections. Find Ross’s book at https://rossjudd.com/listening/ Connect with us: Email: Relationalpractice01@gmail.com Web: https://relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au/ Socials: Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube for more content and practice stories. Support the show: Please subscribe, rate, and review to help us reach more social workers. Music by Hannah Park Editing by Angus Pinkstone
S2 · E29
Mar 29, 2026
53:12
The High Price of Being "Good": Appeasement as a Survival Strategy
In this episode of Relational Practice: A Social Work Podcast, Dr. Jodie Park and Rose Mackey explore a strategy often mistaken for kindness or "being an easy person," but which actually carries a high psychological price tag: Appeasement. We examine this issue through a multi-lens theoretical approach to promote deep sense-making for practitioners. By linking Attachment Theory, the Dynamic-Maturational Model (DMM), and Polyvagal Theory, we move beyond seeing appeasement as a personality trait and instead recognize it as a sophisticated neurobiological survival map used to manage unpredictable or dangerous environments. In this discussion, we identify Appeasement as a core behavioural strategy utilized in distinct contexts: In Childhood Trauma: We explore how appeasement can be a survival strategy designed to minimize environmental or relational threats to the child’s internal or external safety. We dive into the "Foster Care Trap," where the child described as an "absolute angel" an be a red flag for trauma, as they have learned that being "easy" is the only way to promote safety. In the Socialization of Women: We examine the societal pressures that train women from a young age to be "appeasers". We discuss how women are frequently socialized to prioritize the moods and expectations of others at the cost of authentic identity. The discussion also covers: The Attachment Perspective: How the "Internal Working Model" creates a mental script where an individual feels worthy of love only when they are useful or compliant. Authenticity vs. Attachment: Drawing on Gabor Maté’s work, we explore the "tragic transaction" where one reflexively suppresses their authentic self to preserve a necessary connection to a caregiver or partner. DMM Type A Strategies: How "compulsive compliance" involves prioritizing external rules and others' states of mind over one's own internal feelings (Affect) to ensure interpersonal safety. ⚠️ Trigger Warning Today’s episode involves discussions of trauma, childhood neglect, and domestic violence survival strategies. Please prioritize your well-being while listening. Connect with us: Email: Relationalpractice01@gmail.com Web: https://relationalpracticeasocialworkpodcast.com.au/ Socials: Find us on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube for more content and practice stories. Support the show: Please subscribe, rate, and review to help us reach more social workers. Music by Hannah Park Editing by Angus Pinkstone
S2 · E28
Mar 15, 2026
1:10:26
1 of 4