In a special crossover episode for our Pour It On listeners, we are revisiting one of our favorite conversations from our sister podcast, If You've Come This Far. Before Ben Feller joined Chris and Shaun as a co-host on PIO, he was a repeat guest on IYCTF. In this extended interview, we catch up with the former Chief White House Correspondent for the Associated Press to explore the humbling, empirical realities of making a major career pivot in your 50s.

Ben also shares fascinating insights from his current role in language strategy, proving that finding the right words isn't just semantics--it's how the world is run. Finally, we dive into a pragmatic and heterodox discussion about fatherhood, challenging the media's persistent narrative of the "bumbling, absentee dad" and advocating for the men who are deeply invested in  ...