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Pour It On

by Shaun Emerson, Ben Feller, Chris Lozier

Self-Improvement Mental Health

Season 2

#25...Can regret be helpful?

In this one-year anniversary episode of Pour It On, Chris, Shaun, and Ben dive deep into the often-misunderstood concept of regret. Moving past the modern "toxic positivity" trope of living with "no regrets," the hosts explore how looking backward with a critical eye can actually serve a pragmatic, evolutionary purpose. By analyzing counterfactual thinking, the trio unpacks the difference between simple life lessons and true regrets. They examine findings from Daniel Pink’s global regret study, highlighting that the emotional penalty of regret isn't meant to make us suffer indefinitely, but rather to make us feel worse in the present so we can make better choices in the future. Highlights: 01:12 - Celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Pour It On podcast and launching a space for listener engagement. 04:24 - Chris introduces the idea of ditching "toxic positivity" and the "no regrets" fallacy. 07:08 - The crucial distinction between learning a life lesson and holding onto the heavy emotional weight of a genuine regret. 09:50 - Discussing Daniel Pink’s global regret study and the evolutionary utility of feeling regret. 14:15 - Breaking down the difference between making bad choices and mourning the chances you didn't take. Resources: Come A Little Further Substack Daniel Pink's World Regret Study

#26...Conversations with Our Kids

In this episode, Ben, Chris, and Shaun dive deep into the evolving dynamics of communicating with their children as they transition from childhood to adulthood. The hosts explore the profound lessons young adults teach us, emphasizing the value of their unclouded, pragmatic perspectives. The conversation also tackles the struggle of stepping back—shifting from the parental urge to give unsolicited advice and "fix" problems, to simply being present, listening, and asking questions. It’s a grounded reflection on fatherhood, letting go of ego, and finding the beauty in simplicity. Highlights: The Power of Fresh Perspectives: Young adults often approach complex problems with a purity and simplicity that older generations tend to overcomplicate. Shifting from Telling to Asking: The critical realization that offering unsolicited advice is often ineffective and poorly received; true connection happens when parents ask questions instead of imposing their own "wisdom." Managing Parental Anxiety: Learning not to project personal fears or agendas onto kids' experiences, allowing them the space to navigate their own paths. Quality Over Quantity: Recognizing that "seven good minutes" of genuine connection and presence is far more valuable than forced, prolonged interactions. Resources: Come A Little Further - The Substack page for PIO and If You've Come This Far Hocking Hills State Park (Ohio)

Season 1

#24...Getting to know Ben Feller

In a special crossover episode for our Pour It On listeners, we are revisiting one of our favorite conversations from our sister podcast, If You've Come This Far. Before Ben Feller joined Chris and Shaun as a co-host on PIO, he was a repeat guest on IYCTF. In this extended interview, we catch up with the former Chief White House Correspondent for the Associated Press to explore the humbling, empirical realities of making a major career pivot in your 50s. Ben also shares fascinating insights from his current role in language strategy, proving that finding the right words isn't just semantics--it's how the world is run. Finally, we dive into a pragmatic and heterodox discussion about fatherhood, challenging the media's persistent narrative of the "bumbling, absentee dad" and advocating for the men who are deeply invested in the daily lives of their children.

#23...Would You Rather Be Right?

In this episode of Pour It On, Shaun, Ben, and Chris tackle the friction between objective reality and our own subjective lenses. Triggered by a famous quote on human perception, the guys dive into the complex and often messy dilemma of choosing between standing your ground to be "right" and conceding to preserve a valued relationship. Applying pragmatism to everyday conflicts, the co-hosts unpack what it actually means to concede versus genuinely realizing you were wrong, all while trying to remember that most things are not that black and white. From navigating long-delayed friend gatherings to guiding a high schooler through college selection, the conversation is a grounded look at how healthy debate and honest conversation, rather than declaring a winner, is the true mark of success in any relationship. Highlights: [01:45] The Perception Trap: Shaun introduces an Anaïs Nin quote highlighting how our personal biases shape the world we see. [02:30] The Ultimate Dilemma: The guys debate the heavy cost of rupturing a connection just to prove a point, asking if being "right" is really worth it. [06:50] Conceding vs. Learning: Chris breaks down the crucial difference between simply giving in to keep the peace and actively figuring out you were wrong all along. [17:30] Group Dynamics in the Gray Area: Ben explores the complexities of deference and compromise using a real-world example of trying to reschedule a friend group gathering that has been delayed since 2020. [23:00] Parenting with Pragmatism: The conversation shifts to raising kids, focusing on the importance of letting a 9th grader have their own "aha" moments rather than forcing a parent's perspective. Resources: Quote: "We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are." (Anaïs Nin) Book: The Last Ship by William Brinkley Podcast: Conversations with Coleman (Episode: "What People Who Choose Assisted Death Actually Say")

#22...The Burden of Showing Emotion

In this episode, hosts Ben Feller, Chris Lozier, and Sean Emerson dive into the societal expectations of masculinity and the "burden" of expressing vulnerability. Sparked by NBA star Victor Wembanyama’s recent public displays of emotion, the trio explores why men often feel the need to apologize for showing tears of joy or sadness. The conversation moves from the hardwood of the NBA to personal reflections on fatherhood, loss, and the "apology reflex" that kicks in when men let their guard down. Through the lens of classic films and life-changing personal moments, they argue for a new norm: one where passion and connection are viewed as strengths rather than signs of being "soft". Key Takeaways The Wimby Standard: Analyzing Victor Wembanyama’s defense of his emotions and the outdated societal pushback against "the role of a man". The Apology Reflex: Chris and Ben discuss the instinctual urge to apologize to an audience or friends when becoming "choked up" during a story. Extraordinary Achievement vs. Stoicism: Sean reflects on how moments of high achievement or profound personal connection—like his daughter’s wedding—naturally demand emotional release. Cultural Mirrors: How movies like Field of Dreams, Moneyball, and Love Actually provide a safe space for men to process deep themes of fatherhood and connection. Normalizing the "Why": A concluding call to move toward a culture that views male emotion with curiosity rather than judgment.

#21...Reuniting and Reconnecting

In this episode of Pour It On, Chris recounts his recent 30-year reunion with his fellow submarine officers from the USS Trepang. The trio explores if/how "shared intensity"--whether in the isolated, high-stakes environment of a fast-attack submarine or the high-pressure "bubble" of the White House--creates a permanent, unique bond that survives decades of silence. The conversation dives into the pragmatic challenges of maintaining these connections as we age, the "ROI" of social investment, and the profound fulfillment that comes from being truly witnessed by those who knew us before we became who we are today. From the logistical hurdles of "scheduling hassle" to the emotional payoff of vulnerability, Chris, Shaun, and Ben offer a heterodox look at why we often resist reunions yet find them life-giving once they occur. Key Takeaways: [05:30] The Shared Intensity Factor: How high-stakes environments like the military or the White House forge bonds that may differ from standard relationships. [15:10] The "Moment in Time" Trap: Ben reflects on the advice he received about leaving the White House--embracing a marvelous experience without constantly chasing that same high. [25:30] The Logistics of Connection: Shaun and Ben discuss the friction of "scheduling hassle" and why someone must step up as the "instigator" to make reconnection happen. [32:45] Vulnerability and Aging: The hosts consider whether men may find it easier to be "beautifully vulnerable" later in life and the power of "real talk" over trivial conversation. [36:00] Being Witnessed: A look at why it is uniquely fulfilling to be seen by people who knew your "formative" self. Resources Mentioned: USS Trepang (SSN 674): The Sturgeon-class fast-attack submarine Chris served on. USS Iowa (SSN 797): The second newest submarine in the fleet that Chris’s group toured during their reunion. Fr. Michael Himes: Referenced regarding the fulfillment of being witnessed or seen (link is to the If You've Come This Far episode)

#20...Wisdom > Knowledge

In this episode of Pour It On, Shaun, Ben, and Chris gather on a Saturday morning to explore the elusive nature of wisdom. Moving beyond simple definitions, the trio discusses how wisdom differs from mere intelligence and why it is so often rooted in humility and lived experience. The conversation starts with a classic analogy—knowing a tomato is a fruit versus knowing not to put it in a fruit salad—and evolves into a deep dive into how we apply what we’ve learned to help others. From the boardrooms of New York to the bleachers of Yankee Stadium, they reflect on the moments when "knowing" takes a backseat to "understanding". Takeaways Wisdom vs. Knowledge: While knowledge is the accumulation of facts, wisdom is the contextual application of experience to help others navigate their own challenges. The Humility Factor: True wisdom is not about dictating "the way" to others; it involves respecting different perspectives and remaining curious rather than becoming a "mentor bully". Cross-Generational Learning: Wisdom isn't strictly tied to age. Younger generations often offer profound insights by focusing on the "why" and prioritizing connection over convenience. Vulnerability as a Tool: Sharing stories of past fears and mistakes—like Ben's "car-chase" story—can be a more effective way to transfer wisdom than simply listing successes. The Power of Curiosity: A wise approach to leadership and parenting involves asking "what ails you?" and being genuinely curious about another person's reality. Chapters 00:00 Saturday Morning Check-in: Brooklyn Geography and Palm Springs Highlights 02:12 The Tomato Analogy: Knowledge vs. Intelligence vs. Wisdom 03:55 Contextual Counseling: How Wisdom Shows Up in the Workplace 07:06 EQ vs. Quant: The "Kelloggian" Perspective on Leadership 08:50 Avoiding the "Mentor Bully": The Role of Humility in Being Wise 10:48 Vulnerability at 80 MPH: Sharing Lessons with the Next Generation 14:50 Wisdom and Love: Asking "What Ails You?" 19:34 The Wisdom of a 14-Year-Old: Lessons from Yankee Stadium 25:45 The Only Question That Matters: Why the "Why" is Everything 28:34 Closing Reflections: A Future Kid-Led Episode?

#19...Transitions in Life

In this episode, the trio dives into the multifaceted nature of life transitions, sparked by Ben's recent move to a new job at age 55. They explore the emotional spectrum of change—ranging from the initial spark of excitement to the "deep gulp" of uncertainty that comes with stepping into the unknown. The conversation contrasts the feeling of being the instigator of change versus having transitions forced upon you, while also reflecting on how generational views on career longevity have shifted. Finally, they touch on personal milestones, such as children growing up and the "superpower" of asking for specific help during times of flux. Takeaways Transitions often mirror the arc of grief, moving through waves of excitement, hope, and worry. Actively seeking change can provide a sense of control and intentionality in one’s life. Even with extensive experience, new transitions can still trigger a "deep gulp" of fear and the need to relearn behaviors. Change serves as an energy source, helping to build "new muscles" through adaptation to different environments and cultures. While previous generations found stability in 40-year careers at one company, modern transitions often offer necessary intellectual stimulation. Personal transitions, such as children leaving for college or getting married, are significant shifts that require emotional recalibration. Admitting the need for help and being specific about that request is a crucial tool for navigating difficult transitions. The support found in "affinity groups" or close friendships is invaluable because most transitions are not unique to the individual. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Chris’s recent swim meet 03:52 Introducing the Topic: Life and Career Transitions 05:13 The Emotional Trajectory: Excitement to Worry 06:36 Being the Instigator vs. Forced Change 08:08 The "Deep Gulp" of Starting Over 10:14 Building "New Muscles" Through Change 13:58 Generational Shifts in Career Longevity 17:58 Personal Transitions: Empty Nesting and Growing Children 21:55 The "Superpower" of Asking for Help 26:12 Closing Reflections and Seeking Specific Support

#18...Navigating Grief: Personal Stories and Insights

In this episode, we delve into the profound topic of grief, sharing our personal experiences with loss and exploring the complexities of navigating emotions associated with it. We discuss the different models of grief, the impermanence of life, and how children perceive and react to loss. The conversation emphasizes the importance of open dialogue about grief and the necessity of support systems during difficult times. Takeaways Grief is a complex and personal experience that varies for everyone. The first year after a loss can be particularly challenging. Grief can manifest not only from death but also from other forms of loss. The five stages of grief are not a linear process and can vary greatly. It's important to allow oneself to feel and express grief in a healthy way. Children may not fully understand loss but can provide valuable perspectives. The concept of impermanence can help in processing grief. Life continues to grow around grief, allowing for healing over time. Open conversations about grief can foster understanding and support. Modeling emotional honesty for children is crucial in their understanding of loss. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates 01:52 Navigating Grief: Personal Experiences 09:57 Understanding Grief: Models and Perspectives 19:53 The Impermanence of Life and Grief 29:53 Children's Perspectives on Loss 37:46 Conclusion and Reflections on Grief

#17...Lonely and Being Alone

In this episode, Shaun, Ben, and Chris discuss the difference between being alone and feeling lonely. They share their experiences of cherishing alone time and how it can be a source of joy, the impact of the pandemic on human connection, how technology can both help and hinder connection, how loneliness can be exacerbated by societal expectations and the importance of intentionality in maintaining real connections, and more.

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