Jesus Work in Jesus Ways

by Oak Hill College

Season 1

Knowing Your "Sell-By Date": Power, Humility, and Succession in Leadership | Malcolm McGregor

What does it actually look like to lead like Jesus in a world obsessed with titles, power, and status? In this episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Sterling sits down with Malcolm McGregor—former International Director of SIM (one of the world's largest mission organisations), architect, and long-time missionary leader in Nigeria and Ethiopia. Malcolm shares his remarkable story of navigating ministry under a Marxist government in Ethiopia, processing deep personal trial and childlessness in Nigeria, and intentionally stepping down from major executive roles to make room for the next generation of global leaders. If you want to understand true servant leadership, the importance of succession, and how to know your own "sell-by date" in ministry, this conversation is essential listening. Key Topics Covered Lessons from Famine & Marxist Rule: Serving in Ethiopia in the 1980s and running student ministries under lockdown. Personal Trial & Conviction: How personal loss in Nigeria reshaped Malcolm and his wife Liz’s view of rights versus privileges before God. Knowing Your "Sell-By Date": Why great leaders know when it is time to step aside and pass power to others. Building Culturally Diverse Teams: How Malcolm restructured SIM's global leadership team to reflect the global Church. God in the Details: Why laying the drainage system for a building in Addis Ababa served as a lifelong metaphor for quiet, faithful leadership. Advice to 25-Year-Old Leaders: The two non-negotiable principles every young leader needs to know. Episode Timestamps 00:00 – Intro to Malcolm McGregor & Missionary Background 01:06 – Welcome & Oak Hill’s Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership 03:36 – Architecture & Student Ministry in Marxist Ethiopia 06:20 – Lessons from Nigeria: Hardship, Healing, and Surrender 18:50 – Leadership Conviction: Knowing Your "Sell-By Date" 22:00 – Taking the Reins at SIM International 25:20 – Resigning Power to Build a Truly Diverse Global Team 31:35 – Why Christian Leaders Struggle to Let Go of Status 35:00 – "God is in the Details": Drains, Architecture, and Unseen Work 37:45 – Two Essential Pieces of Advice for Young Leaders About Malcolm McGregor Malcolm McGregor trained as an architect before spending decades in cross-cultural mission leadership alongside his wife, Liz. He served in Nigeria and Ethiopia before becoming the UK Director and later the International Director of SIM (Serving In Mission) for 10 years. He continues to serve and mentor Christian leaders in Scotland and around the world. About Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Hosted by Mark Stirling (Program Director for Oak Hill College's Masters in Contemporary Christian Leadership), this podcast features conversations with experienced Christian leaders exploring how to do God's work in God's ways. Learn more about Oak Hill College Explore the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership Subscribe & Review: If this episode blessed you, please leave a 5-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!

S1 · E4

Oct 6, 2026

40:45

The Death of Hero Leadership (and How Grace Rescued Me) | Zack Eswine

What happens when your "front-stage" leadership gifts outpace your "back-stage" life? In this deeply raw, moving, and disarmingly honest conversation, host Mark Stirling sits down with long-time friend, author, and pastor Zack Eswine. In his thirties, Zack appeared to have it all—a flourishing ministry trajectory and a national book award for preaching. But beneath the accolades lay a performance-driven mindset that was stripped away through a painful, "Job-like" season of divorce, job loss, and sudden single fatherhood. Zack shares his journey from performing for God to actually meeting the living person of Jesus in the middle of laundry, crockpot meals, and ordinary daily graces. Together, Mark and Zack explore: Deconstructing "Frowning" Holiness: How rediscovering God’s delight in beauty, art, and creation changes the way we view ministry. The Trap of the "Hero Leader": Moving away from fast, famous, and large-scale success toward faithful, long-term presence. Grace in the Wilderness: How a local Chinese church and loyal elders reframed friendship, grace, and Christian community during Zack's darkest moments. Words for the Weary Leader: What Zack would tell his 25-year-old self about rest, ambition, and identity. Whether you are in pastoral ministry, church leadership, or simply feeling burned out from the pressure to perform, this episode offers a gentle, necessary invitation to rest in the truth that you are already beloved. Key Quotes from the Episode "Everything around you wants you to do large things famously as fast as you can for God. But most things that truly matter in life require small, mostly overlooked graces over a long period of time." — Zack Eswine "The truest thing about you is that you are loved by God, and he delights in the human person he created you to be. There is nothing more you need to prove to Him." — Zack Eswine Resources Mentioned & Connect Zack's Newest Book is out Now: Wiser With Jesus Other books by Zack Eswine: Sensing Jesus: Life and Ministry Beyond Our Limitations and Resilient Faith Learn More About Zack's Work: Sage Christianity & Riverside Church Explore Leadership Training at Oak Hill College: MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership About Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Jesus Work in Jesus Ways is an initiative of Oak Hill College, hosted by Mark Stirling (Director of the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership). This podcast features candid conversations with leaders whose life and ministry embody the character, posture, and ways of Jesus. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review if this conversation encouraged you!

S1 · E3

Sep 29, 2026

48:25

Self-Awareness, Conflict, and Joy in Ministry | Andrew Rollinson

How do Christian leaders navigate deep church conflict, avoid the trap of self-deception, and sustain genuine joy over a lifetime of ministry? In this episode, host Mark sits down with retired Baptist pastor, author, and former national Ministry Advisor Andrew Rollinson. Drawing from over 40 years of pastoral leadership—from early mission work in Uganda to pastoring in Newcastle, Morningside, and St Andrews—Andrew shares battle-tested wisdom on what it takes to do Christ's work in Christ's ways. Together, they explore the core themes of Andrew’s book, Conversations by the Sea, focusing on the vital importance of emotional self-awareness, non-anxious leadership, and establishing robust accountability in ministry. Key Takeaways & Topics Covered: Navigating Church Conflict: Why conflict isn't always morally negative, how to build trust, and the creation of "Peaceful Transformation Teams" using Anabaptist Bridgebuilders principles. Leading as a Non-Anxious Presence: The power of doing the basics well, listening before leading, and avoiding power-driven decision-making. Finding Power in Weakness: How tragic and dark moments in ministry reveal God’s grace and shape pastoral collegiality. Theology as Worship: Why reading deep, challenging theology enriches daily pastoral care and guards against "hurry sickness." Self-Awareness vs. Self-Deception: Why self-awareness and security in God are the two most critical traits for leaders, and how to spot our own blind spots. Authentic Accountability: Moving beyond surface-level accountability to intentional annual reviews, counseling, and invites for candid feedback. Books & Resources Mentioned: Conversations by the Sea by Andrew Rollinson The Undefended Leader trilogy by Simon Walker When Narcissism Comes to Church by Chuck DeGroat I Told Me So: Self-Deception and the Christian Life by Gregg A. Ten Elshof About Oak Hill College & Jesus Work in Jesus Ways Jesus Work in Jesus Ways is a podcast by Oak Hill College, created to equip pastors, church leaders, and believers to serve Christ with his heart, wisdom, and character. Learn more about Oak Hill College Explore our MA Leadership Course Subscribe & Review: If this episode encouraged you, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a ministry leader or friend!

S1 · E2

Sep 22, 2026

41:13

Stop Performing for God: Why Grace and Gladness Change How You Lead | Marcus Honeysett

Are you leading out of genuine joy, or have you quietly fallen into a performance-driven routine? In this first episode of Jesus Work in Jesus Ways, host Mark Stirling (Director of Oak Hill's MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership) sits down with author and leadership mentor Marcus Honeysett for a candid conversation on why sustainable ministry must flow from God's unmerited grace rather than legalistic hustle. Marcus shares his dramatic wake-up call from guilt-driven evangelism programs to grace-filled soul care, unmasking how technical competence and "bigger is better" metrics can easily mask spiritual exhaustion. Together, they explore the quiet tactics of the enemy—including comparison, jealousy, and isolation around age 40—and offer a refreshing vision of leadership rooted in deep spiritual health, Sabbath rest, and biblical gladness. Key Takeaways Cognition vs. Transformation: Teaching skills and information without grounding leaders in grace creates fear-driven, performative cultures. The Metric Trap: Size, growth, and technical preaching ability can mask serious spiritual decay and shaky foundations. The Enemy’s Schemes: Satan rarely uses sudden frontal attacks; he uses long-term isolation, entitlement, and comparison to pick off exhausted leaders. Gladness as a Barometer: True Christian gladness isn't fake positivity—it is the natural downstream overflow of resting in God's love. Scripture as Worship: Shift your quiet times from sermon preparation or informational study to personal worship over the Word. Links & Resources Oak Hill College: Learn more about the MA in Contemporary Christian Leadership Living Leadership: Explore soul-care resources for church workers at Living Leadership Connect with Oak Hill: Follow us on X or Instagram Rate & Review: If this conversation encouraged you, please leave a 5-star rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify! Mentions Colossians 1:6 Acts 2 Psalm 16 The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill - Christianity Today Podcast Deep Water Horizon Movie

S1 · E1

Sep 15, 2026

53:20

Introducing Jesus Work in Jesus Ways

Trailer

Good leadership helps people flourish. Bad leadership does the exact opposite. But what actually makes a leader good in today's world? Whether you’re leading a company, a church, a classroom, or your own family at the dinner table, the pressure to produce fast, famous results is everywhere. But here is the surprising truth: modern secular research is increasingly proving what Jesus showed us all along—leading through service, character, and love isn't just morally right, it actually yields the healthiest results in every arena of life. Welcome to Jesus' Work in Jesus' Ways, hosted by Mark Stirling. In this short preview, discover the heart behind unscripted, honest conversations with frontline practitioners, medical leaders, scholars, and pastors who are leading in Jesus Ways In this podcast, you will discover: Character Over Control: Why real influence comes from who you are, not how much power you exert. Overlooked Graces: How small, steady acts of faithfulness outperform fast, flashy growth hacks. Cross-Sector Wisdom: Practical insights bridging the gap between sacred ministry, marketplace leadership, and daily home life. Take the next step: Hit Subscribe or Follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen so you never miss an episode. Let’s learn to lead like Jesus as we follow Him together.

Sep 8, 2026

2:40