🔥 Follow Me to the M-R-O-P! | Podcast on RSS.com

🔥 Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!

🔥 Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!

by Brian Mueller

Education Christianity

Season 1

Episode #32 feat. Steve Duncan

What happens when you retire and realize you don't have any in-depth male relationships outside of your professional life? In this thirty-second episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Steve Duncan to discuss his 2015 initiation at Camp Tamarack in Northern California. Steve shares his journey of taking a huge leap of faith into men's work, arriving at the rites in a carpool "clown car," and the transformative power of vulnerability. Episode Highlights The Leap of Faith: How retiring and wanting a deeper relationship with his new son-in-law led Steve to seek out male connection. Supported in the Struggle: Steve recalls a deeply moving moment during a physical ritual when a team member gently supported him. Awakening to Contemplation: How the first morning sit around a campfire opened the door to a rich, ongoing contemplative practice. MROP vs. Elder Rites: Steve compares the multi-generational bonding of his men's rites to the profound, specific grief work of the Elder Rites. Holding the Thread: A beautiful reflection on William Stafford's poem "The Way It Is," and why Steve's marriage is the thread that keeps him grounded. Links & Resources Brian Mueller (Host) BriansPoems.com Illuman MROP Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller Credits First and foremost, thank you to Steve Duncan for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #31 feat. Nine Lives with Jeff King

Why am I sharing an episode from another podcast on our feed? Because understanding the Enneagram is an incredibly powerful tool for the masculine spiritual journey—and I wanted to share a conversation that dives deep into it! Rest assured, there is also plenty of relevant discussion here about Illuman and the Men's Rites of Passage. In this special thirty-first episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, the tables are turned as host Brian Mueller becomes the guest on Nine Lives with Jeff King: Live Your Best One. Jeff, a counselor and coach with the Narrative Enneagram, interviews Brian about his experience navigating life, faith, and community as an Enneagram Type One (The Reformer). Episode Highlights The Enneagram as a Spiritual Tool: Why understanding your personality type is essential for growth, and how the "Type One" drive for perfection can be both a gift and a heavy burden. What is Mine to Do?: Learning to discern the difference between healthy responsibility and codependent fixing. The Origins of Illuman: Brian reflects on Richard Rohr’s early New Jerusalem community in Cincinnati, the history of the MROP, and the deep, universal hunger for authentic brotherhood. Poetry and the type 1-to-4 connection: How stepping into creative expression through mystic poetry allowed Brian to silence his inner critic and process the grief of his divorce Choosing Presence: Reclaiming meditation and contemplative prayer as a deeply Western, Christian tradition of the heart. Links & Resources Jeff King Nine Lives with Jeff King (podcast) Brian Mueller (Host) BriansPoems.com Illuman MROP The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller Credits First and foremost, thank you to Jeff King for allowing me to share an episode of his podcast - Nine Lives with Jeff King: Live Your Best One. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #30 feat. Mike Clawson

What happens when you spend five years pouring your heart and soul into building a business, only to have it completely fall apart through no fault of your own? In this thirtieth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Mike Clawson from Austin, Texas, to discuss his 2022 initiation at Johnsonburg, New Jersey. Mike opens up about arriving at the rites carrying the heavy grief of a lost "passion project" and a suddenly unmoored identity. As a former administrator for Illuman, Mike offers a unique behind-the-scenes perspective on the organization, while reflecting on the challenges of dropping his own guard to be truly vulnerable with other men. Episode Highlights The Disorienting Loss: Navigating the grief of a failed business venture and learning that "it is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose." Lover and Magician: Why the MROP focuses more on the emotional depth of the Lover and Magician archetypes, rather than the traditional King and Warrior energies. The Rain and the Woods: The somatic, visceral power of sitting alone in the freezing rain to excavate unresolved grief. Human Work vs. Men's Work: Mike’s perspective on why the inner work of the rites transcends gender, even if men specifically need a male-only container to feel safe enough to begin it. Redefining Ikigai: Shifting away from the Western obsession with "grand purpose" to find meaning in the simple, everyday things that get you out of bed. Links & Resources Brian Mueller (Host) BriansPoems.com Illuman MROP Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller Credits First and foremost, thank you to Mike Clawson for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #29 feat. Jay Gallamore

What happens when a retired naval pilot—who used to schedule his Saturday naps days in advance—steps out of his head and into his heart? In this twenty-ninth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Jay Gallamore to discuss his 2024 initiation at Shrine Mont, Virginia. Jay shares his journey of navigating PTSD, divorce, and the unraveling of his life, ultimately finding a tighter steering wheel for his spiritual path through Illuman. He opens up about the shock of the "mirror gauntlet," balancing his "three buckets" of life, and why the radical inclusivity of men's work needs to consciously make space for military veterans and first responders. Episode Highlights The Wide Road: How hitting rock bottom with PTSD and a crumbling marriage sparked a profound spiritual journey. The Mirror Gauntlet: The emotional shock of witnessing the deep childhood wounds of other men during ritual. Head to Heart: Transitioning from a highly analytical, schedule-driven life to a grounded morning meditation practice. Military Men & Radical Belonging: A candid discussion on the tension conservative or military men might feel in progressive spiritual spaces, and the need for true inclusion. The Three Buckets: Learning the hard way to balance family, religion, and volunteer work without overcommitting. Links & Resources Brian Mueller (Host) BriansPoems.com Illuman MROP Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr Trust Stillness by Brian Mueller Credits First and foremost, thank you to Jay Gallamore for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #28 feat. Jared Adams

What happens when a touring worship leader from Dodge City leaves his intellectual scaffolding in the woods and realizes that "dead men don't swat flies"? In this twenty-eighth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Jared Adams for a fascinating conversation about his 2012 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Jared, a freelance creative and touring singer-songwriter, shares how he arrived at the rites exhausted by the cognitive dissonance of his Reformed and Evangelical upbringing. Guided by the "apophatic" shepherding of Weaver Belden Lane, Jared learned the profound power of putting down his notepad, embracing beginner's mind, and surrendering to the magic of the woods. Episode Highlights Dead Men Don't Swat Flies: Jared recounts laying prostrate in a meadow during his day of death, realizing he had to surrender his physical comfort and let the ants crawl over him to truly honor the ritual. The "I Am" Breakdown: The terrifying moment in his first council circle when he ran out of polite, dictionary-ready adjectives and was forced to drop his facade. Ruined for the Show: How the profound authenticity of sitting in a circle of men made it impossible to return to the performance-driven "fog machines" of Sunday morning worship leading. Building the Youth Rites: Jared's decade-long involvement in helping create a 24-hour initiation for teenage boys, and his excitement to finally experience it with his own son, Cohen. The Locksmith Epilogue: Accidentally locking his keys in the car after the rites, leading to hours of profound reflection on a stump with Father Bob. Links & Resources Annagail Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr The The Solace of Fierce Landscapes: Exploring Desert and Mountain Spirituality by Belden Lane Brian Mueller (Host) Credits First and foremost, thank you to Jared Adams for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #27 feat. Mark Titus

What happens when a filmmaker and recovering alcoholic heads to a river to grieve his father, only to find an audiobook calling him to the wilderness? In this twenty-seventh episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Mark Titus for a deeply moving conversation about his May 2024 initiation in Deroche, British Columbia. Mark, an advocate for wild salmon and indigenous communities in Bristol Bay, shares his powerful journey of surrendering his armor and crossing the threshold into sacred space. He reflects on the "ritual of death," the mystical synchronicity of the number seven, and how the rites served as a master's course in his 12-step recovery journey. From reading Iron John in his twenties to discovering The Universal Christ while steelhead fishing, Mark's story is a beautiful testament to staying on the path of love, even in the midst of career crossroads and profound grief. Episode Highlights The Golden Boy: Arriving in "The Nest" and weeping at the sight of a wild man holding a golden boy. Dying Before You Die: Confronting mortality in the ritual of death and finding true presence. The Synchronicity of Seven: The profound poetry of arriving at the rites exactly seven months after his father's death, with seven years of sobriety, and being assigned to cabin seven. A Master's Course on Recovery: How the rites accelerate the spiritual journey of the 12 steps without the rigidity of institutional religion. Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart: The ongoing legacy of Robert Bly's poetry shared between lifelong friends. Links & Resources Mark Titus Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr Adam's Return by Richard Rohr The Rag and Bone Shop of the Heart: A Poetry Anthology by Robert Bly, et al. Brian Mueller (Host) Credits First and foremost, thank you to Mark Titus for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #26 feat. Ken Beck

What happens when an 8th-grade math teacher, who often felt more comfortable in the presence of women than talking sports with men, enters the deep woods of Minnesota and reconnects with his own sense of masculinity? In this twenty-sixth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Ken Beck for an incredibly honest and refreshing conversation about his 2013 initiation at Osprey Wilds. Ken shares his journey of overcoming his intimidation by other men, discovering his own unique "flavor of masculinity," and the profound relief of releasing a long-held secret shadow in council. Ken reflects on the Midwest "John Wayne" stoicism he grew up with, the slow "ironing board" process of true transformation, and the power of learning to hold space for others without trying to cure or fix them. Whether you are a young man still building your container or an older man feeling stuck despite your outward accomplishments, Ken’s insights offer a beautiful invitation to step into radical vulnerability. Episode Highlights The Ticks and the Boulder: Ken recalls finding a liminal rock between the forest and the plains for his wilderness solitude. He spent the time sharing the space with ticks that had fallen from the oak trees where the deer fed. A Different Shadow: Ken attended the rites intending to grieve his father's death, but unexpectedly found himself releasing a hidden, shameful story from his teaching career instead. His Own Flavor of Masculinity: Moving past the cultural expectation of the "protector/fixer," Ken discusses finding comfort in his unique identity and moving past the fear of male spaces. The Ironing Board: Why transformation isn't always a sudden light switch, but a slow, gradual process of smoothing out the wrinkles over time. Advice for Young Men: The importance of building a strong container in your 20s and 30s, while recognizing that those achievements won't save you when a real crisis eventually hits. Links & Resources Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Brian Mueller (Host) Credits First and foremost, thank you to Ken Beck for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #25 feat. Dave Kraybill

What happens when an academic who built his entire identity around achievement suffers a major heart attack, only to be found sitting in his hospital bed still frantically emailing his co-workers? In this twenty-fifth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Dave Kraybill for a profound conversation about his 2024 initiation at Aravaipa Canyon, Arizona. Dave, a retired agricultural economist who spent 11 years working in Africa, shares how a therapist’s simple recommendation led him to discover Illuman after years of treating his body like a machine and overworking to earn esteem. Dave reflects on his journey from a Mennonite farming community—where rhythm and drumming were viewed as "potentially evil"—to crossing the creek at Aravaipa and entering a completely different, deeply somatic world. He speaks movingly about overcoming performance anxiety during a grief ritual, finding a powerful metaphor in a resilient desert plant, and applying Richard Rohr's wisdom that "pain that is not transformed is transmitted". Whether you are struggling to stay present in your relationships or wondering if you should attend the Men's Rites or the Elder Rites, Dave’s wisdom provides a brilliant roadmap for the second half of life. Episode Highlights Not Performance, But Prayer: How a single piece of instruction from a ritual leader shattered Dave's lifelong performance anxiety. The Plant in the Rock: Discovering a beautiful metaphor for flourishing in impossible circumstances during his desert solitude. The Hospital Wake-Up Call: Realizing his foundation was flawed when he immediately resumed working after a major cardiac event. The "Glow": Returning to his men's group after the rites radiating an unexplainable, transformative energy. Men's Rites vs. Elder Rites: Dave's practical counsel on how to discern which initiation experience is right for you based on your unresolved wounds. Links & Resources Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Brian Mueller (Host) Aravaipa Canyon Ranch and Retreat Center Credits First and foremost, thank you to Dave Kraybill for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #24 feat. Al Selder

What happens when a retired engineer sitting in the Arizona desert suddenly starts singing Doris Day, only to realize he's being called to help heal the brokenness of other men? In this twenty-fourth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Al Selder for an inspiring conversation about his 2005 initiation at a YMCA camp in Oracle, Arizona. Al shares how trusting the invitation of other men led him to one of the very first rites held outside of Ghost Ranch, where Weaver Richard Rohr guided him into a profound period of self-reflection. Al recounts a mystical vision of quaking leaves and running water he experienced in the desert—a vision that ultimately led the Arizona chapter to discover the sacred, liminal grounds of Aravaipa Canyon. He speaks about his transition from simply attending the rites to taking on the monumental task of running the kitchen for over 90 men, eventually becoming the chapter's convener. From the poignant "starfish story" of helping just one person, to the beautiful realization that his own adult son is now seeking out council circles, Al's story is a testament to the quiet, generational power of service. Episode Highlights "Que Sera, Sera": Why a Doris Day song and the memory of his late father-in-law sparked a lifelong commitment to men's work. The Vision of Aravaipa: A mysterious desert vision of running water that led to finding a sacred retreat space with a deep, complex history. The Starfish Story: Remembering that you don't have to change the whole world—you just have to make a difference for the man standing in front of you. Feeding the Brotherhood: The logistical feat of managing a kitchen and camp for 92 men in the middle of a remote canyon. Generational Ripples: The joy of witnessing his son decide to start his own council circle after years of observing the work. Links & Resources Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Brian Mueller (Host) Doris Day - Que Sera Sera Aravaipa Canyon Ranch and Retreat Center Credits First and foremost, thank you to Al Selder for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #23 feat. Mike Whitman

What happens when an arrogant, 60-year-old youth minister who thinks he has his spiritual life completely "figured out" arrives at the rites terrified and is forced to tear down his carefully constructed walls? In this twenty-third episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Mike Whitman for a deeply reflective conversation about his 2008 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Mike shares how a master's class with former guest Bill McElroy led him to blindly say yes to an experience that left him questioning his decisions just four hours into the drive. Mike reflects on the terror of his first ritual, his instinct to constantly rebuild his emotional walls, and the miraculous softening that occurred when he unexpectedly stepped into a paternal role for two younger men. As an Enneagram Type One, Mike speaks with profound wisdom about asking God for "radical inner honesty," learning to accept his own imperfections, and finally dropping his lifelong "spousal spirituality" out of his head and into his heart. Whether you are a man hiding behind a mask or looking to soften your own sharp edges, Mike's story is an inspiring invitation to step into true vulnerability. Episode Highlights The Arrogant Arrival: Thinking you have your spiritual life completely figured out, only to realize you are stuck behind your own masks. Tearing Down Walls: The cyclical terror of having boundaries broken down in ritual, only to nervously rebuild them again. The Enneagram One: How recognizing the "Perfectionist" mask softened a lifetime of harsh internal criticism and made him "a lot less negative". Radical Inner Honesty: Stepping into the pain of recognizing personal dishonesty and mixed motives instead of escaping into an image. Spousal Spirituality: Dropping a lifelong faith from the intellect down into the heart. Links & Resources Choosing Presence (Sponsor) Practicing Presence App Illuman MROP Adam's Return by Richard Rohr Brian Mueller (Host) Credits First and foremost, thank you to Mike Whitman for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

1 of 4