Today, we dive deep into the future of our streets, our sidewalks, and the very fabric of our cities with one of the most unique thinkers in the entire mobility ecosystem.

When he looks at transport, he does so through the lens of social good, public policy, and human harmony, combining insights from Design, Systems engineering and human Behavioral Economics.

Bern Grush is the Co-Founder and Executive Director of the Urban Robotics Foundation, and the lead architect behind the ISO 4448 standards—essentially drafting the global 'rules of the road' for how sidewalk delivery robots and humans share public spaces. He is also the author of the definitive textbook, The End of Driving.

I chat with him about the limits of Disruption and if the Curb is the true barrier.

We chat:

• How far will AVs  ...