Ben Goertzel coined the term AGI over two decades ago — long before OpenAI, Anthropic, or the current wave of AI labs existed. Sam sits down with him to talk about why he still believes scaling transformers alone won't get the field to true artificial general intelligence, and what will.

Topics covered:

• The "common model of cognition" from cognitive science — working memory, episodic memory, metacognition, goals — and what LLMs are missing
• Why LLMs can't do lifelong learning or true metacognition without long-term memory
• Ben's take on his ongoing debate with Gary Marcus over the path to AGI
• SingularityNET's neural-symbolic evolutionary approach, and Hyperon, its open-source AGI system
• MeTTa, the self-rewriting knowledge metagraph at the core of Hyperon
• Omega Claw agents — g ...