Holly met Mick Silver about two years ago when he was on a panel at the very first Necterine event — fresh out of grad school, dropping the kind of insights that made Holly walk away thinking, I need to keep talking to this person. Two years later, here we are.

Mick is a therapist in LA who specializes in working with men, which means he has a front-row seat to what's actually going on underneath the male loneliness epidemic — and spoiler: it's not that men don't know how to talk to women. It's that they don't know how to talk to themselves. In this episode, they get into why so many men have turned their coping mechanisms into entire lifestyles, why "I just go with the flow" is almost always a trauma response in a flat-brim hat, and why anger keeps showing up as the only emotion men are culturally allowed to feel.

Mick break ...