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About this episode:
What would a jellyfish teach us if we were willing to listen?
In this episode we plunge into a poetic and philosophical conversation with Daniela Zyman, Artistic Director of TBA21–Academy and author of The Laughter of the Jellyfish, about the transformative power of counter-education, the ontological conflicts of our time, and the ways art can serve as a mediating force between knowledge, policy, and planetary urgency. A leading voice in contemporary curatorial practice, Zyman reflects on the role of culture in the face of ecological, political, and epistemic collapse.
Our conversation explores how art can operate as a space for resistance and re-imagination—intervening in science, influencing policy, and challenging dominant narratives of knowledge production. We speak about her notion of counter-research and counter-knowledge, her collaborations with transdisciplinary artists and Indigenous communities, and her belief in the power of radical imagination.
Guided by the metaphor of the jellyfish - fluid, ancient, and radically embodied—we explore how to unlearn the rigid binaries of modernity and float toward more entangled, relational ways of knowing. Drawing from the work of Bruno Latour, Nancy Fraser, Allan Sekula, Armin Linke, hydrofeminist ethics and decades of curatorial practice, Daniela shares her reflections on the shifting role of culture in a world facing ecological, spiritual, and cognitive fragmentation. How can cultural institutions help us navigate a time when even the future feels endangered?
The Speaker:
Daniela Zyman is a curator, writer, and the long-time Artistic Director of TBA21 (Thyssen-Bornemisza Art Contemporary), one of the world’s most pioneering foundations working at the intersection of contemporary art, environmental consciousness, and cultural diplomacy. With a background in philosophy, religious studies, and political science, Zyman has curated and co-developed transdisciplinary programs that bridge contemporary art, indigenous knowledge, oceanic research, and critical theory. She is the conceptual force behind many of TBA21–Academy’s landmark initiatives, including The Current, a fellowship program for artists and researchers aboard expeditionary vessels and coastal residencies. Zyman’s work is rooted in counter-hegemonic pedagogy, posthuman ethics, and the cultivation of what she calls “curatorial listening”—a form of sensing-with the world, not from above it. She has collaborated with artists such as Amar Kanwar, Joan Jonas and many others.
''As Above, So Below'' is a collaborative podcast season between ZEITGEIST19 and One Ocean Foundation, focused on biodiversity and ocean conservation and planetary well-being.
Hosts: Farah Piriye & Elizabeth Zhivkova, ZEITGEIST19
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