It is a rare pleasure to be able to start a conversation with an epic topic and to drift through other topics without ever reducing the significance of the debate.

Karin talks about courage as an abstract concept but then in relation to her life and experiences. There is no rebuke in her words, only observation; clear and penetrating.

It is no surprise thereafter that our minds turn to Afghanistan and rather than taking the obvious critical approach, we try to find a balance between hope and pessimism. On the ground there is sure to be chaos, pain and suffering, a sense of loss and lost opportunity. Nothing is ever black and white however and though the Taliban would not be every westerner’s first choice of leadership, time will tell whether they have "matured" and learned in the 20 intervening years, as they say.

We then talk a ...