Laura Federico sits down with Stephanie Wambugu, author of the critically acclaimed debut novel Lonely Crowds, to explore the intimate relationship between desire and suffering in the lives of Ruth and Maria.

Together, they unpack the complex dynamics of Ruth and Maria's decades-long friendship, examining how childhood shapes adult patterns of longing, the shadow Catholicism casts over pleasure in the novel, and why penance becomes inextricable from passion. Stephanie shares her perspective on trauma narratives in fiction, the problem with making suffering too tidy, and how secular life leaves us without clear pathways for moral absolution.

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Laura Federico

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