Dr Gary Johns is a former minister in the Keating government. In his post political career he has been deeply involved in a variety of public policy matters impacting on Australia. Among other things he has been a regular columnist for The Australian, Commissioner of the national charities regulator, and the author of many books including "The Burden of Culture" and "The Charity Ball". He is the founder of the think tank, https://closethegapresearch.org.au/ focusing on aboriginal disadvantage.

In this episode we discuss among other things:

• His early political career and how his views changes since the Hawke/Keating era
• His views on trade generally and the new challenges since the Hawke/Keating/Howard era and the rise of China
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