In this episode of History Through Fiction: The Podcast, host Colin Mustful speaks with historical novelist Stephanie Dray about two women who helped shape the United States from outside the official centers of power: Abigail Adams, featured in A Founding Mother, and Frances Perkins, the subject of Becoming Madam Secretary. Their stories offer a vivid way into an enduring question: who gets to define freedom, and what does democracy demand from ordinary citizens?

The conversation begins with Abigail Adams—wife of John Adams, mother of John Quincy Adams, and a forceful thinker in her own right. Dray describes Abigail raising children, managing a farm, seeking financial independence, and challenging the revolutionary promise of “all men are created equal” with her famous appeal to “remember the ladies.” From there,  ...