Grub & Grace | Podcast in RSS.com

Grub & Grace

di Mark Flower

Cristianità Spiritualità

Stagione 1

On Fire For God: Fear, Shame, Poverty, and the Making of the Christian Right w Josiah Hesse

What happens when poverty, desperation, and fundamentalist religion become deeply intertwined? How do entire communities get shaped by fear, shame, and the promise that faithfulness will eventually be rewarded? Today we sit down with Josiah Hesse to discuss his deeply personal book, On Fire For God, and the realities of growing up poor in rural Iowa during a time when economic collapse and religious extremism were feeding off one another. We talk about the rise of the Christian Right through the lens of lived experience: prosperity gospel theology, generational dysfunction, purity culture, fear-based religion, and the ways vulnerable people are often told their suffering is either holy or deserved. Growing up in a world where brokenness becomes normalized, where shame functions as social currency, and where faith was both a lifeline and a weapon can be damaging to anyone caught in the system's crosshairs. This conversation explores the emotional cost of survival in high-control religious environments, the political machinery that profits from desperation, and what it means to revisit painful memories in pursuit of honesty and healing. Josiah Hesse is a journalist based here in Colorado, writing about exvangelical issues for quite a while now. He is the author of Runner’s High and is a regular contributor to The Guardian and Vice. His latest book On Fire For God can be found wherever books are found. josiahhesse.com IG: @jojodancer3000 Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Christians For A Free Palestine w Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart

This episode throws the “keep it light” rule directly into the fire and tackles some of the most contested conversations of our time: Palestine, Zionism, colonialism, empire, nationalism, and white supremacy. We explore how systems of power frame justice as controversial while presenting domination, occupation, and violence as unfortunate but “complicated” realities. Along the way, we examine how history is sanitized, narratives are controlled, and dissent is often treated as more dangerous than the harm being protested. At its core, this conversation is about questioning the stories we inherit and asking who benefits from them remaining unchallenged. From imperialism and propaganda to selective memory and political rhetoric, we unpack how modern systems maintain power through fear, confusion, and historical erasure. If you’ve ever felt like the official narrative leaves out crucial pieces of the story, this episode is for you. Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart, a daughter of Detroit, is a Black queer preacher, teacher, movement strategist, and justice advocate. She is an adjunct professor of theology and religious studies at Villanova University and also serves as the first-ever Strategic Partnerships Director at Political Research Associates (PRA), a social justice research and strategy center that provides strategic insights and actionable research that identifies, disrupts, and competes with movements and institutions that undermine democracy, justice, and human rights. In 2021, Rev. Naomi founded Salt | Yeast | Light, an organization that develops spaces of spiritual education, disruption, reflection, transformation, and public action. Naomi serves as the Board Chair of Pride in the Pews, and also a member of the board of SIECUS. Additionally, she serves on the Faith Advisory Council of Americans United for Separation of Church & State and volunteers her time with Christians for a Free Palestine. You can find her on Instagram @oholyshift as well as on Threads If folks want to book her, they can email: hellorevnaomi@gmail.com Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

The Fallacies of Christian Zionism w Elli Reynolds

What happens when nationalism, empire, and religion become so deeply intertwined that violence begins to look holy? In this episode, we examine the relationship between anti-imperialism, immigration enforcement, colonial power structures, and the political machinery that sustains them. From conversations surrounding ICE and state violence to the global consequences of militarized nationalism, we explore how fear and power are often packaged as morality, security, or even divine obligation. A major focus of this discussion is the ideology of Christian Zionism and the ways it has been weaponized to support imperialism, colonial expansion, and endless political conflict while simultaneously reinforcing harmful antisemitic narratives beneath the surface. Together, we unpack how theology can be manipulated into a political tool, why criticism of empire is often reframed as disloyalty or heresy, and how systems of domination rely on religious certainty to justify oppression. This episode challenges simplistic narratives and asks difficult questions about faith, power, nationalism, and what solidarity looks like in a world shaped by occupation, fear, and control. Elli Reynolds is an aspiring journalist, documenting power, protest, & occupation. You can find them on Instagram @elli_documents or on TikTok @elli_documents. Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Eucontamination: Disgust Theology and the Christian Life w Billie & Paul Hoard

Why do humans recoil so strongly from things we perceive as “unclean,” immoral, or socially contaminating — even when those reactions make absolutely no logical sense? In this episode, we dive into the psychology of disgust, moral contamination, and the invisible boundaries humans obsessively create between pure and impure, acceptable and unacceptable, “us” and “them.” From religion and purity culture to gender norms and social stigma, we explore how fear and shame are often used to police behavior and maintain control. But disgust isn’t always destructive. Sometimes the very things that unsettle us force us to confront deeper truths about identity, morality, vulnerability, and what it means to be human. This conversation examines why people cling so tightly to moral superiority, how cultures weaponize disgust to create outsiders, and whether the things that make us uncomfortable might also be the things capable of transforming us. Billie Hoard is a trans woman, a high school history teacher, an author, and something of an Anabaptist radical. A consummate generalist, she holds an MA in liberal arts from St. John’s College in Annapolis, Maryland, and she writes on topics ranging from fairy tales and C. S. Lewis to theology and philosophy. She and her brother, Paul Hoard, are the authors of Eucontamination: Disgust Theology and the Christian Life. billieiswriting.substack.com Paul Hoard, PhD, LMHC, is a licensed counselor, psychoanalytic psychotherapist, and associate professor of counseling psychology at The Seattle School of Theology and Psychology, as well as a board member for the Center for Christianity and Psychoanalysis. His scholarship focuses on Lacanian psychoanalytic theory, sexuality, white-body supremacy, perpetration-induced traumatic stress, and the theological logic of disgust. He has spoken and published internationally on topics including purity culture, trauma, eucontamination, and the intersections of theology and psychoanalysis. In addition to his academic and clinical work, Dr. Hoard is a co-founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Praxplay, an AI-powered training platform designed to help counseling students develop clinical skill through simulated client interactions. He is the co-author, with his sister Billie Hoard, of the book Eucontamination: Disgust Theology and the Christian Life. https://paulhoard.substack.com/ ; Praxplay startup for counselor training; Center for Christianity and Psychoanalysis Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Your Matter Matters w Will Rose

In a world flooded with information, distractions, and algorithm-driven certainty, how do we genuinely pursue truth without getting lost in the noise? This episode explores the interconnectedness of science, faith, ethics, technology, history, and spirituality, challenging the idea that these worlds must exist in opposition to one another. Instead of settling for simplistic binaries, we lean into curiosity, nuance, and the uncomfortable reality that truth is often far more complex than we’d like it to be. Can faith and science coexist, or have we been conditioned to see them as enemies? From questions about meaning and morality to the ways identity shapes our understanding of reality, this conversation examines why humans cling so tightly to certainty in an increasingly fragmented world. Think of it like an endless debate between Star Wars and Star Trek fans—except the stakes are existential, and nobody gets a lightsaber. We are joined today by pastor Will Rose; a Lutheran pastor, Theology Beer Camp enthusiast, and one of the hosts of Systematic Geekology and Across the Bifrost, the Mighty Thor Podcast. He is a co-host on the new podcast limited series Your Matter Matters with Thomas Johnston. You can also find him on Instagram @willnrose. Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Cultural Gaslighting of American Mothers w Sandra Maurer

Motherhood in America is often sold as a beautiful, fulfilling dream wrapped in matching family photos and inspirational coffee mugs. The reality, however, tends to involve exhaustion, impossible expectations, political whiplash, and a society that insists everything is “fine” while mothers quietly drown beneath the weight of it all. In this episode of the G&G Podcast, we unpack the cultural gaslighting surrounding American motherhood — the constant messaging that women should feel grateful, fulfilled, and supported despite systems that often leave them isolated, overworked, and blamed for struggling. From reproductive healthcare and bodily autonomy to economic instability, immigrant family fears, childcare costs, and the emotional labor mothers are expected to absorb without complaint, this conversation examines the widening gap between public narratives and lived reality. Why are mothers expected to function as emotional shock absorbers for society while receiving so little structural support in return? And what does that disconnect do to a person psychologically over time? Joining the conversation is Sandra Maurer, a licensed professional clinical counselor and reproductive mental health specialist from Minnesota, who helps explore the mental and emotional toll these contradictions create. Together, we discuss chronic stress, anxiety, societal conditioning, maternal identity, and the impossible balancing act many women are pressured to perform every day. If you’ve ever felt like the messaging around motherhood sounds suspiciously different from what mothers are actually experiencing, this episode is for you. Because sometimes the most destabilizing part of dysfunction is being told you’re overreacting to it. American Mother-load is Sandra Maurer's future book that she is hoping to get out later in 2026. IG: @mn_therapist TT: @mn_therapist Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Doubting Faithfully w Keith Long

In this episode, we sit down with the ideas from Doubting Faithfully by Keith Long to explore what it means to deconstruct faith without abandoning it entirely. Instead of treating doubt as failure, we examine how it can be a sign of growth—a willingness to move beyond inherited certainty and into something more honest, even if it’s less comfortable. We also dig into the unsettling pull sometimes felt within high-control religious spaces—the sense that questioning could cost you everything, yet not questioning might cost you yourself. From there, we wrestle with what it means to hold tension: to entertain difficult ideas without immediately accepting or rejecting them. Why is that so hard? What systems, fears, or social pressures keep people from engaging deeply with their own beliefs? And how might learning to sit with uncertainty actually reflect a deeper kind of spiritual maturity? Ultimately, this conversation invites us to loosen our grip on needing to be right. What if being wrong isn’t something to fear, but something to learn from? What if faith isn’t about certainty, but about curiosity, humility, and the courage to keep going anyway? Pull up a chair—this is a space where doubt isn’t the end of faith, but part of how it becomes something real. Keith Long has been a Lutheran pastor for 14 years and is the author of three books, Doubting Faithfully: Confessions of a Skeptical Pastor, Growing Spirit Wise: A Heretic’s Guide to Resurrection and Eternal Life, and Moviemakers, a novella. Keith has also written for New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman's blog, studies expanded consciousness in his free time, and loves his home state of Minnesota where he resides with his family. His website is www.authorkeithlong.com and is currently developing a Lecture Series entitled "Jesus Beyond Christianity" 7 in-person and online presentations exploring pre-Christian culture and the future of religion. Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Xtian Leftists Against Christofascism

Episode Notes — Xtian Leftists Against Christofascism Welcome to Grub & Grace, a space that pushes back on the idea that Christianity belongs to one political ideology. Here, we take seriously the need to question what we’ve been taught—especially when faith gets tangled up with power. In this episode, we confront how Christian Nationalism continues to shape public life, and how certain church leaders have traded prophetic witness for proximity to empire—dressing up domination, exclusion, and nationalism in the language of “God’s will.” We dig into what some are calling an “attack on empathy”—how compassion itself is being reframed as weakness or even heresy in certain spaces. From policies that harm marginalized communities to rhetoric that dehumanizes immigrants, queer folks, and BIPOC communities, we explore how systems built to benefit cis-het white power structures ultimately dehumanize everyone. This includes a hard look at the realities of immigration enforcement and the fear it instills in families and communities, raising urgent questions about justice, dignity, and who gets to be seen as fully human. At its core, this episode is about reclaiming faith from the grips of empire. What does it look like to follow a tradition rooted in liberation rather than control? How do we resist forms of Christianity that align with fascism while building something more honest, more just, and more life-giving in its place? Pull up a chair—this is a conversation that refuses easy answers but insists on something better. Anthony DePice is an activist and an organizer. You can find him on all social platforms under the name Anthony DePice. Attributions: ON8FDNIHEAKJ8GXS

Won't You Be My Neighbor w Ian McConnell

In this episode, we start with a simple but disarming question: Who is our neighbor? And we don’t stop there—we flip it on its head and retort with: Who acts LIKE a neighbor? Using Fred Rogers as a guide, we explore what emotional intelligence looks like in practice—how curiosity, empathy, and emotional awareness can shape the way we show up for one another. We revisit his well-known idea of “the helpers,” asking what it really means to look for them—and more importantly, to be one—in a world that often feels fractured and overwhelmed. From there, we wrestle with the moral weight of First They Came by Martin Niemöller, reflecting on silence, complicity, and the cost of failing to see others as our neighbors until it’s too late. This episode holds together tenderness and challenge—inviting us to expand who we include in our circle of care, to resist the instinct to look away, and to consider what it might actually take to answer that question, not just in theory, but in practice. Ian McConnell is a pastor of The Fabric church in Minneapolis, MN. He is a partner to the platform “Reclaim The Church” with Rozella Haydeé White and Pastor Tuhina Rasche (ReclaimTheChurch.substack.com and @ReclaimTheChurch on IG). You can also find him on TikTok @iangmcconnell.

BSE: Once An Addict, Always An Addict & J-O-Y

In this episode, we examine two common ideologies often promoted in religious rehab and recovery spaces: “Once an addict, always an addict” and “J-O-Y: Jesus first, others second, yourself last.” While these ideas are frequently presented as spiritually grounded wisdom, we explore how they can become harmful when used as the foundation for addiction treatment. We discuss how “once an addict, always an addict” may reinforce shame, hopelessness, and a fixed identity around addiction rather than recovery, and how the J-O-Y framework can encourage chronic self-neglect, poor boundaries, and the belief that personal needs are inherently less important than everyone else’s. This episode looks at why these teachings persist, why many people find comfort in them, and how even well-intentioned beliefs can create damaging outcomes when applied uncritically in recovery settings.

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