In this episode, Daniel and Philipa talk with award-winning author and regenerative leadership expert, Carol Sanford. Carol draws on her experience working with business leaders to explain the importance of working on change in an indirect way.

Carol Sanford is a consistently recognized disruptor and contrarian working side by side with Fortune 500 and new economy executives in designing and leading systemic business change and design. Through her university and in-house educational offerings, global speaking platforms, best selling multi-award-winning books, and human development work, Carol works with executive leaders who see the possibility to change the nature of work through developing people and work systems that ignite motivation everywhere. For four decades, Carol has worked with great leaders of successful busines ...