This is a bit of a different episode because we're talking about what cities are made of, rather than how we make our cities.

I had the pleasure of meeting Saurabh Mangla on a day where I was hot, tired and just wanted a beer. But getting the story of his materials lab and how he's working to explore how cities use their materials more effectively, efficiently and in many ways, delightfully is a good reviver.

We talk about Singapore, India and how material resources can be an excellent way for cities to demonstrate their Challenger mindset.