If you haven’t listened to Part 1 yet, start there. This episode will hit differently if you do.

In Part 1, we explored the psychology behind our true crime obsession — the science, the costs, and the ethical questions the genre rarely asks.

In Part 2, we go somewhere the research can’t take us. Into the room.

My guest, Rhonda Gaines, didn’t watch the Lori Vallow Daybell sentencing on a screen. She booked a trip to Idaho, walked into that courthouse, and sat in the room where a woman who murdered her own children received her sentence.

In this episode:

• What it’s actually like to walk into a courtroom and face the reality of a crime you’ve only ever seen on a screen

• What Rhonda saw in Lori Vallow Daybell’s face — and what she felt in the room with the victims’ families