Europe likes to believe race is an American problem. But close to 50 million people of an ethnic minority background live in the EU, nearly 40 percent report facing discrimination, and the institutions that collect data on everything else collect almost nothing on this.

This week we sit down with Ophélie Omnès, a lawyer and lobbyist working at the intersection of EU law and inclusion. Naina comes to this one conflicted, as a woman of colour who questions why race is still the frame we keep returning to, and the conversation goes somewhere honest from there. Why the discomfort. Who benefits from keeping it vague. And whether naming these categories keeps them alive.

Keep listening, keep questioning.