What if your best referral partner isn't a past customer at all, but your pool guy?

That's one of the plays Michael Stearns of Ascend brings to Pete in this episode.

Michael runs a marketing agency built around custom websites, SEO/AEO/GEO, and Google Ads for roofers. He doesn't sugarcoat where most contractors go wrong: chasing lead volume instead of understanding what it actually costs to land a customer.

Michael breaks down the difference between "tag team trades" (HVAC, plumbing, landscapers) and "power partners" (real estate agents, property managers, insurance agents) — and why the second group can feed you leads before a homeowner even knows they need a roof.

He also gets into how AI search is changing what "ranking on page one" even means, and why the roofers showing up in ChatGPT results are the ones getting cited ...