This week, the wise and witty Ella McLeod sits down to talk with us about the hard-hitting, ever-prevalent topic of whiteness in publishing, including in our own podcast (!) and dissecting the dreaded Diversity Tick-Box. (And if you're curious about that title, we do explain it in-episode!) But first, we also chat about some of the differences between YA and adult publishing, and her experiences as an actress, poet, podcaster, and now a debut author. Also, Ella turns the tables at the end to ask what our editors/publishers think of us running this podcast.