Why are some people rich and others poor? It's not because the laws of nature or economics make it so. Our winner-take-all economy has been deliberately constructed to place more and more wealth and power into fewer and fewer hands.

The consequences for our democracy. have been disastrous. Samuel Bowles, who has spent his academic career studying the problem, is Professor Emeritus of Economics at UMass Amherst and the head of behavioral sciences at the Santa Fe Institute, author of a dozen books on capitalism, poverty, educational reform and building a moral future. In conversation with Donovan and Gary, Professor Bowles explains how we arrived at this dangerous juncture and the steps forward if we are to remain a free society.