We have spent a lot of time on the podcast talking about physical cities as streets, buildings and the spaces between them. What we perhaps don't talk about enough is the digital layer underneath all of it, and how badly most cities are fumbling it. This week's guest has spent the last decade thinking about almost nothing else.

Alistair Croll runs FWD50, perhaps the biggest gathering of digital first public servants in the world. He also wrote the book on lean analytics, literally, with Ben Yoskovitz. And last year he published Just Evil Enough with Emily Ross, which is about recognising the systems you're inside and getting them to behave in ways their creators didn't intend. As it turns out, that's a pretty useful instinct when you're trying to drag government into the 21st century.

We talked about why digital government is slow ... ...